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Author Topic: Map Development Software - SharpOcarina  (Read 29858 times)

Arcaith

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Map Development Software - SharpOcarina
« on: March 26, 2011, 09:36:55 AM »

CURRENT SOFTWARE
SharpOcarina v0.6/r17: http://code.google.com/p/sharpocarina/downloads/detail?name=SharpOcarina-v06.rar
SharpOcarina source: http://code.google.com/p/sharpocarina/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk


This is almost verbatim from a conversation I had, on Mr. spinout and Mr. xdaniel collaborating on something:

A program that imports and obj, and then converts it to ziff (the Zelda Intermediate File Format). Once that's done, via a gui, one can set blendmodes and other options for textures, adjust vertex colours and possibly even add actors, exits etc. It can be worked on and saved to the ziff, even shared in that format over time. Then the ziff is converted to a dlist and imported to ROM.

spinout and xdaniel, you two are probably best suited to do this given the work you've already done on both conversion and map display and editing. This is just a suggestion, but a very pointed one. If you guys have the time to flesh this out, it'd be a huge help for a lot of people.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 07:39:39 PM by xdaniel »
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Zeth

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 10:00:52 AM »

Its honestly one of the most -needed- tools to make actual proper maps, the current importer isn't really meeting the needs, its been left kind of buggy to the point its almost unusable.

*Errors in collision cause freezing
*Certain textures are either whited out almost or darkening is too dark, where texture conversion really should be 1:1
*Environmental errors in the scene file cause actors, Z targeting triangles and even the HUD to disappear when other actors are present
*Smooth shading for vertex colours so they blend at edges are needed
*Wotf.py converts all objects too dark and no option for scaling like the map converter
*Exits don't exist
*As Xdan has mentioned beforehand, maps really are not being imported correctly since only the filetable is being modified with imports.
*64x64 palletized textures are not supported

I know some of these could be fixed manually however when trying to import a dungeon map that is about 10+ full maps, its gets rather cumbersome when you have to constantly manually edit each and every one to work even somewhat correctly. So any work toward what Arcaith is suggesting would honestly be quite appreciated. I'd be more then happy to make maps for testing and help beta test the program.
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Jason777

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 04:47:02 PM »

@Zeth, wotf.py has an option for scaling. Also, exits are able to used in custom maps easily.
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spinout

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 05:56:50 PM »

This is almost verbatim from a conversation I had, on Mr. spinout and Mr. xdaniel collaborating on something:

A program that imports and obj, and then converts it to ziff (the Zelda Intermediate File Format). Once that's done, via a gui, one can set blendmodes and other options for textures, adjust vertex colours and possibly even add actors, exits etc. It can be worked on and saved to the ziff, even shared in that format over time. Then the ziff is converted to a dlist and imported to ROM.

spinout and xdaniel, you two are probably best suited to do this given the work you've already done on both conversion and map display and editing. This is just a suggestion, but a very pointed one. If you guys have the time to flesh this out, it'd be a huge help for a lot of people.
Yes, that was the goal of my original ziff. But that code is messy and needs to mostly be re-written, and it was written with an emphasis on objects and animations, not maps, though both ought to be supported. Recently, I have been working on a library, n64tool, which would make writing ziff much simpler. I can't make promises about a GUI, but I do intend to write a tool which does everything you said - and perhaps a little more (animated objects).

Its honestly one of the most -needed- tools to make actual proper maps, the current importer isn't really meeting the needs, its been left kind of buggy to the point its almost unusable.

*Errors in collision cause freezing
*Certain textures are either whited out almost or darkening is too dark, where texture conversion really should be 1:1
*Environmental errors in the scene file cause actors, Z targeting triangles and even the HUD to disappear when other actors are present
*Smooth shading for vertex colours so they blend at edges are needed
*Wotf.py converts all objects too dark and no option for scaling like the map converter
*Exits don't exist
*As Xdan has mentioned beforehand, maps really are not being imported correctly since only the filetable is being modified with imports.
*64x64 palletized textures are not supported

I know some of these could be fixed manually however when trying to import a dungeon map that is about 10+ full maps, its gets rather cumbersome when you have to constantly manually edit each and every one to work even somewhat correctly. So any work toward what Arcaith is suggesting would honestly be quite appreciated. I'd be more then happy to make maps for testing and help beta test the program.
I will do my best to address your points:
  • This is likely an off-by-one error somewhere in my collision_fixer rewrite, I have never encountered this error myself though.
  • Yeah, I know, I have been struggling with texture lighting for quite a while. The current 'fixes' in obj2area are not sufficient.
  • I have not encountered these errors, I need the means to reproduce them.
  • Yes, this goes with the texture lighting issue, it is mostly in the Geometry Mode flags, though some is in the color combiner stuff.
  • The darkness hacks cannot be enabled through the command line but there are numerous options for scaling, see the output of wotf.py --help
  • Exits and other collision types are a planned addition
  • This will be the job of another tool I am yet to develop which will be given a Zelda 64 ROM and will fix all the pointers in all the tables
  • I've tried this but my code was buggy, I'll get to it when I have the opportunity. Eventually all textures should be palletized if possible, as they end up being smaller that way. Do note that there is a loss in quality if there are more than 256 colors.
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xdaniel

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 12:57:04 AM »

This thread made me try creating an .obj importer myself... but it's not much more than a .obj viewer with borked texture coordinates yet. It is capable of turning the model files it loads into XML-based ones, tho, based on the program's internal structures they're parsed into - it's also capable of loading and using them, instead of .obj & .mtl files :P

No idea how far I'll be going with this, probably not very, so don't count on me here (or at least this program).


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Zeth

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2011, 01:09:49 AM »

  • This is likely an off-by-one error somewhere in my collision_fixer rewrite, I have never encountered this error myself though.
This is mostly likely cause you use Nemu which ignores errors.

  • I have not encountered these errors, I need the means to reproduce them.
I will send you a copy of the map before the fix so you can see for yourself the error problems.

  • The darkness hacks cannot be enabled through the command line but there are numerous options for scaling, see the output of wotf.py --help
I'm sure once you get the texture problem fixed, this won't be an issue anymore as for the scaling, I must of missed it by accident. :P

  • I've tried this but my code was buggy, I'll get to it when I have the opportunity. Eventually all textures should be palletized if possible, as they end up being smaller that way. Do note that there is a loss in quality if there are more than 256 colors.
Would it be possible to do an option for having them palletized or not?

@Xdan - I can probably provide a better test map for it if you want?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 01:11:47 AM by Zeth »
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xdaniel

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 01:15:28 AM »

Well, this isn't anything I consider a "project" (in the vein of SayakaGL or the GB emulator) yet, but why not, Zeth - the more maps to try out, the better :)
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Arcaith

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2011, 01:20:45 AM »

I'd suggested a collaborative effort between you and xdaniel, spinout since xdaniel has a lot of experience in GUIs :P Between the two of you, you have more than enough skill to pull it off successfully. Also, the texture brightening is happening to the textures themselves as far as research indicated (though for some reason not to all of them); I'm not sure what's happening but for some reason the RBG values are being increased. It may be related to pallette based textures, but I can't be certain.
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spinout

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2011, 02:19:35 AM »

The 'ziff' I was imagining wouldn't contain any model data - it would just point to OBJ files, and then the ziff file would contain further refinements on the model. Do note that bug reports in regards to my current obj converter will be obsolete, as ziff will not use any of that code. also this

I will not be able to talk more about this/writing code for a week though since I'm leaving the country. Keep on throwing out the ideas though, they are all welcome.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 02:21:21 AM by spinout »
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Zeth

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2011, 05:06:54 AM »

Here is the Test room that spinout and xdan can use.

^ scaling x3 and I still get darken textures and freezes :<

But that should be a better test map then what i threw together ages ago.
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Zeth

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 08:03:32 AM »

Here's a suggestion
Allow for door placement and fixing, so you can set each door to whatever door type, then correct each door's transition.
EX: Type: Wooden door
Transition: between Map 0 and Map 1
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Mallos31

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 02:56:11 PM »

Yeah, I tried your map out and didn't even get as far as entering it. I went there with Map Select, and my fps dropped to 1 and... well.. it crashed.
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Zeth

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 10:06:11 PM »

That's the crashes I and a few others have been getting with R12's converter. If you play it Nemu, it shouldn't crash though for some reason texture coordinates on one of the area's gets messed up. Hopefully this can be corrected in the near future.
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xdaniel

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2011, 01:00:54 AM »

Mo~ron, mo~ron, mo~ron! Do NOT call GL.Vertex3 BEFORE setting the texture coordinates, stupid! What the fuck was I thinking?



This doesn't mean anything for this program, but who knows. I'm thinking of tackling something new - been toying with the idea of writing a WonderSwan or MSX emulator, but especially WS is probably out of my league for now - so why not pursue this here some more...
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Zeth

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Re: Map Development Software
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2011, 07:35:05 AM »

Whoa Xdan! :O
You got it loading correctly? I don't see the messed up texture glitch either! :D
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