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Author Topic: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.  (Read 13595 times)

Anthus

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For me, the most fun part is designing dungeons, and rooms, even if they can't be played. I look at it as a fun hobby, and something to do. I will post screen shots of some models I've made in SketchUp, and talk a little bit about each one. I hope this is the appropriate forum for this thread. If not, I apologize for the inconvenience. I understand the fact that it is probably impossible to import these, but it was fun anyway :p


This is a "Light Temple" Styled room. The idea behind this was simple. It was going to be one of the rooms in a "Cave of Ordeals" styled area I'd like to put into the game.


Here are the "forest temple" rooms.


My second favorite, the Fire Temple area.


And the Ice cave area.

These next pictures are models of the first three dungeons from AlttP.


And lastly, here is the beginning of the texturing process for the Eastern Palace, which when finished, I'll happily release to the community for various testing needs, or whatever :)



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Jason777

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2011, 02:06:09 AM »

Woah. These look pretty fucking sweet. Keep 'em coming!

Can't wait for a download :P
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spinout

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 06:21:08 AM »

Nice models. All these areas can be imported, though you'll have to make sure all faces are facing the right way - that is, the white sides of all faces are the ones the player is to face, and the grey sides are the ones that the player does not see.
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Anthus

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2011, 06:41:50 AM »

Nice models. All these areas can be imported, though you'll have to make sure all faces are facing the right way - that is, the white sides of all faces are the ones the player is to face, and the grey sides are the ones that the player does not see.

Ooh.. See, when I dabbled in SM64 hacking, it was the opposite. The gray faces were the ones you used, and the white ones were the ones that the player didn't see. :/

But, I can always select the entire model, and reverse the faces, as for the textures.. well, it didn't take me too long to do that on the AlttP one's at least.:p Is there a way in SU to apply texture to the other side of a face without redoing every texture?

So, there are many tools I've seen on the Wiki. What would I do to convert this to a usable file? I know it has to be a wavefront .obj, which I have a converter for. Do you have to triangulate models before hand, cause that can mess up textures unless you manually triangulate them (e.g. make a square into two triangles). Also, If I have the hi-res textures enabled via the Rice plug-in, will these textures work? My textures are all images from the Hi-Res texture pack, but I know when you make an .obj, it also creates a .mtl file which stores textures separately.

And thank you for the feedback. I'm glad people like my work :)
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Jason777

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 04:48:25 PM »

Do I detect ALttP 3D mod? :P Obj2Area is what you want to use to import OBJ files. I believe it has an option to reverse faces.
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spinout

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2011, 07:10:43 PM »

I actually have a newer converter written in C but it isn't directly usable for maps yet. You'll want to make sure you have textures that are no larger than 64x32, and have dimensions which are a power of 2 (2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64). Don't worry about triangulation, all my converters triangulate automatically.
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originaLink

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2011, 10:13:02 PM »

   Man you work fast. These models look amazing. Mabe you'll make ALttP 3D before nintendo.
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"This account is active only for nostalgic purposes. I am off to bigger things but i may pop in once in a blue moon. I have no ill feelings but I'm just one individual."

Arcaith

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2011, 12:39:25 AM »

These are really nicely done pieces :D
To get a few of them to work you'd need to create some exit collision to get Link to shift position between sections, or rearrange the floors somewhat to link up all the doorways directly, but otherwise these are good.
Also, a small pointer. The (smaller non boss and non Spirit Temple) lockable doors in OOT have a height of 100 units and a width of 60, so you might want to adjust the ratio of your doors' height and width.
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Anthus

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2011, 06:26:50 AM »

Do I detect ALttP 3D mod? :P Obj2Area is what you want to use to import OBJ files. I believe it has an option to reverse faces.

In a perfect world, with infinite free time, and limited technical issues. :P I will look into that program tomorrow, and I'm glad there is an option for that.

Man you work fast. These models look amazing. Mabe you'll make ALttP 3D before nintendo.

In all seriousness, I think it would be -totally amazing- to remake AlttP in 3D with OoT's engine. I know SO much work would be required. Drawing maps is one thing, but when you get into enemies and cutscenes... Woo.

These are really nicely done pieces :D
To get a few of them to work you'd need to create some exit collision to get Link to shift position between sections, or rearrange the floors somewhat to link up all the doorways directly, but otherwise these are good.
Also, a small pointer. The (smaller non boss and non Spirit Temple) lockable doors in OOT have a height of 100 units and a width of 60, so you might want to adjust the ratio of your doors' height and width.

Thank you. The reason the "temple themed" rooms are built like that is because, it was inspired by the Cave of Ordeals from TP, where you pass through a door, and drop down a hole (or off a ledge in TP's case), and pass onto the next room. However, in my iteration, the player could climb out, because there would be some vines, or a ladder, or whatever there given the area.

As for the doors, that is one big thing I've been curious about. So, they must be a uniform size? You can't have a "door actor" that is just a clone of the code for a regular door which fits with the dungeon (Pssh, I know next to nothing about the nitty-gritty of hacking code)? I mean, resizing is not really an issue, just so long as I know what the proportions need to be, and 100x60u is easy enough to remember.


Thank you guys, for the support and tips. It is very much appreciated :)


EDIT: This hot weather makes me want to do the Ice Palace, lol.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 07:21:41 AM by Anthus »
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Naxylldritt

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2011, 09:59:30 AM »

Some general pointers when designing maps to be imported that I noticed you might benefit from:

  • Avoid unnecessary geometry. If the player can't see it, it doesn't need to be there. Every extra polygon (especially in the mesh) takes its toll on the emulated engine or the player's computer, whichever is weaker, so make every face count.
  • Adjust texture mapping as you go. That's more or less optional if you're just performing tests, but for final imports, you'll want to take advantage of SketchUp's mapping utilities (right-click face and select texture mapping). I find it to be very annoying doing this step last for every face at once.
  • Group your rooms for interior maps. If you've got a lot of rooms, you need to export the meshes separately, and they all need to be in the same spot relative to the origin. This is a common mistake made by people new to the script and how imports work, so save yourself the trouble and group your rooms as you go instead of trying to select each room to group after it's all done. That is not as easy as it sounds.

Also, I smell competition. Grr.

Also, where did you get those textures? I am seven kinds of jelly.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 10:03:11 AM by Naxylldritt »
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Arcaith

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2011, 06:03:01 AM »

You've always had competition, Naxy. I'm just very lazy :P
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pantsu~

Naxylldritt

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 06:35:15 PM »

Yes, but you cheat and use 3DS Max, so I pretty much always put myself behind you there. When it comes to SketchUp, I've not had much significant competition. >.>
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Anthus

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 03:44:26 AM »

Some general pointers when designing maps to be imported that I noticed you might benefit from:

  • Avoid unnecessary geometry. If the player can't see it, it doesn't need to be there. Every extra polygon (especially in the mesh) takes its toll on the emulated engine or the player's computer, whichever is weaker, so make every face count.
  • Adjust texture mapping as you go. That's more or less optional if you're just performing tests, but for final imports, you'll want to take advantage of SketchUp's mapping utilities (right-click face and select texture mapping). I find it to be very annoying doing this step last for every face at once.
  • Group your rooms for interior maps. If you've got a lot of rooms, you need to export the meshes separately, and they all need to be in the same spot relative to the origin. This is a common mistake made by people new to the script and how imports work, so save yourself the trouble and group your rooms as you go instead of trying to select each room to group after it's all done. That is not as easy as it sounds.

Also, I smell competition. Grr.

Also, where did you get those textures? I am seven kinds of jelly.

Thanks for the pointers. As far as grouping rooms, how many should be in one group? For example, if you look at the Water Temple, would an entire floor be one group, or should it just be about five rooms or so? Also, what is the max supported polys per area? I remember with SM64, it was somewhere near 6,000 per course. As far as geometry the player can't see, I've gone back in some areas and removed them. Most of what was left over was just from drawing, and I hadn't gotten to remove them yet.

And, the textures are from the "Community High-Res OoT Pack" or something like that. It's the pack I downloaded from this page. I would actually prefer to use the default OoT textures, but I could not find them anywhere. :/
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Arcaith

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 09:47:15 AM »

What Naxy means by grouping rooms is something along the lines of what I said earlier. In OOT, dungeons generally comprise about 10 to 20 'maps' and a single 'scene'. The scene is always loaded in its entirety into memory, but the maps are only loaded when Link is in them. The doorways between these rooms are physically aligned.



This is a render of a test dungeon I made way back for testing early versions of spinout's importer. You'll notice that all the doorways are positioned to be aligned exactly with the rooms they link up. Also note the green rectangles. Those are flat planes that are included only on the collision model export, as the doors themselves lack solidity. The doorways are 100 high, 60 wide and 20 deep on each side of the room, so the total distance through the doorway is 40. The depth can be different, and I've since learned that it's best to inset the collision slightly in the doorway, by about 5 units. Anyway, this basically illustrates the point. The collision model would be everything in this model. Map 1 would be the lobby area, minus the green rectangles. Map 2 might be the left hand room, map 3 the right hand room and map 4 the top room.

Conventionally, bosses have their own map AND scene, so that the memory used up by the loaded collision of the rest of the dungeon (including doors and clear triggers) can be freed for the boss itself.
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Anthus

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Re: Some of my ideas, from the outlandish, to the impossible.. maybe.
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 08:02:57 PM »

Oh, okay. I think I'm starting to get it. The "maps" are the rooms, a collision mesh is for a collection of rooms. Is the collision mesh contained within the "scene"? So, for my Eastern palace, each big room (and maybe three or four smaller rooms?) would be it's own map, then there would be a collision mesh exported which has all the collisions for doors, and stuff? So, in SU, each "Map" in OoT would be a group in SU? I Think I understand what Naxi was saying too, about keeping the positions of each map relative. So, essentially each room(s) seen in a map would line up as if the entire dungeon where visible. In other words, rooms not in the map are 'invisable'.

And does anyone have/ know where I can get the original OoT textures?

EDIT: Are there any tutorials on YouTube that would help me out? I've found a few instructional videos, but I haven't seen, like, a step-by-step of taking a SU model, and getting it into OoT. If I become skilled enough, and there isn't one already, maybe I'll do it.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 08:40:51 PM by Anthus »
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